Tech Exec Wellness Podcast: Conversations to Reignite Your Soul
In the fast-paced world of technology, where innovation and disruption are the norm, tech executives often find themselves caught in a whirlwind of high-pressure decision-making, long working hours, and constant connectivity. The relentless pursuit of success and the demands of their roles can take a toll on their mental, emotional, and physical well-being. However, a new narrative that emphasizes the importance of tech executive wellness as a crucial component of sustainable success is emerging. This is the story of the tech executive's journey to rediscover balance, prioritize well-being, and ultimately thrive in their personal and professional lives.
If you're ready to embark on a wellness journey that will empower you to live your best life, I invite you to subscribe to Tech Exec Wellness, Navigating the Digital Balance, wherever you listen to podcasts. Together, let's cultivate harmony within ourselves and radiate positive energy to the world. Each week, we'll explore a wide range of topics related to wellness, inviting experts, thought leaders, and everyday individuals who have transformed their lives through mindful living, self-care, practices, and holistic approaches. We'll dive deep into areas such as nutrition, fitness, mental health, spirituality, mindfulness, personal growth, and more.
Tech Exec Wellness Podcast: Conversations to Reignite Your Soul
Resilience in Motion: Finding Alternative Recovery Strategies with Shannon Brewster and Melissa Sanford
Have you ever wondered how to juggle a thriving career while nursing a stubborn knee injury? Shannon and Melissa share their stories of resilience and adaptation, offering a blueprint for those striving to maintain an active lifestyle amidst life's curveballs. Join us to hear how these two experts transition from high-stakes obstacle races to managing the challenges of a hectic work life while dealing with injuries. They explore how a gradual approach and the inclusion of alternative workouts like rucking can greatly enhance recovery. This episode serves as a strong reminder that finding a balance between activity and rest is crucial for long-term health.
Walking is often an overlooked champion in fitness, especially for those dealing with chronic discomfort. This episode explores how nature walks can effectively reduce anxiety and enhance overall well-being. Shannon shares his life-changing journey through stem cell therapy for chronic knee pain, discussing the doubts, obstacles, and ultimate triumph she faced. The dialogue emphasizes the importance of physical therapy in recovering from injuries.
The art of balancing intense workouts with restorative practices like yoga takes center stage as we discuss strategies to maintain fitness goals without compromising health. Melissa and Shannon discuss various tools, including CrossFit, Bikram yoga, and KT tape, for managing injuries and enhancing strength. They explore the importance of matching dietary habits to activity levels, highlighting the benefits of clean eating for overall health. As they wrap up, they anticipate a lively discussion about upcoming films, including the highly anticipated Gladiator movie, making this episode both informative and enjoyable.
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Hello and welcome back to another episode of the Tech Exec Wellness Podcast. I'm Melissa, I'm Shannon. We would like to have a conversation with you about working out maybe some injuries that you're trying to overcome and just some different ways that we, personally, have been able to kind of push through With that being said, shannon, I know that you've had an injury and you've had some issues going on Would you like to share with the listeners kind of what your journey's been like?
Speaker 2:Yeah, absolutely. I think it's a good topic, you know, I think for me it was, you know, really trying to be really, I'd say, active and then combining that with maybe a little bit too much going on at work. You know, and I think that was really my tipping point, which was an interesting connection for me in the months that followed my injury. So I was doing obstacle course racing, I was doing a Spartan in, I think, Palmerton, Pennsylvania. It was a really, really difficult course. I'd been having some challenges with my knee but I really put it over the top on that ski slope and it just kept getting progressively worse for months and at the same time I had taken a lot more responsibility at work and quadrupled my workload and I think it affected sleep, and then it just became like a tailspin, which I think it really speaks to the importance of having good balance and being aware that there's going to be some ripple, some side effects there if you're not paying close attention to what your body needs.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I would agree with that. And I don't know about you, Shannon, but I feel I was a high school college athlete and played soccer and rugby on the side when I was in the military. I don't know about you, but I still have the mindset of a 20-something-year-old and I'll try and go all out and I have found that I succumb to injury all the time. I mean, do you ever think like that, Like I can take a week off, two weeks off, and I can just go back at it?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean there's that. And then just not pushing yourself too hard. I mean it was pretty easy when I was more active at CrossFit Box to try to keep up and I tried to intentionally tell myself, because my mom kept reminding me that I was. She kept telling me I was too old for this. You break 40, you have to be really careful about now, you know, just not overdoing it. Maybe maybe not hitting three to five workouts a week. Maybe maybe you need to do five days spacing between the workouts and slow down.
Speaker 1:I know when we had Wendy Bounds on the show, I thought that was incredible to talk about beginning your Spartan training journey, you know, at 50 after 50. And I think from what I've heard from some of our listeners is that gave them a whole new mindset. I think I'm going to take a slow approach to it so I can compete next year with you and Wendy, but I'm also going to pace myself.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think pacing yourself is really good And's not something that you need to. You know, what do they say as far as winning the race? Right, like that old analogy, you know, I think you just need to make sure that you just stay that youth mindset. Well, let me ask you this when you have been injured.
Speaker 1:What type of alternative workouts are you doing? I'd like to hear and like to share mine as well.
Speaker 2:Actually I've really gotten into just the concept of rucking as kind of a nice fallback. And there's a lot of research out there that one of the big differentiators for the human form is our ability to carry. We were kind of made to carry heavy weight for long distances. It's just a unique adaptation, if you will, on just the way that we're structured and the body seems to respond really really well to this approach. So putting on a weighted vest or a backpack on your back and just walking, walking, for you know, even short distances, but a nice long rock with some hills, I think does, does a lot of good. And you know, for me like I can't run anymore without my knee just blowing right up from some of the injuries. So being able to take it easy and still having some level of exertion there's a lot. You know Michael Easter's one that's written a lot about this. He's got a good sub stack and big, big proponent of of rucking. You've got the go ruck movement out there that I think would be a good look for for listeners.
Speaker 1:Can you tell me how you got into rucking? I know that you mentioned Michael Easter We've talked about him before and love to get him on the show, by the way but could you maybe tell me, and everybody listening, how do I get into that? What are the first steps I want to take and, I guess, what are some of the advantages of it? When you take that vest off or that heavy weight off, what does it do for the body?
Speaker 2:So I think, first of all, it's easy because just even if you don't have equipment, most people have a backpack laying around, right, so just put a backpack on Run into the airport.
Speaker 2:Throw in some weight into it, right, you could put rocks in it, you could put some books in it. I mean, start light and just keep increasing it. I had my kids. I think I got into it actually, because my kids got a go-ruck vest for me for Father's Day several years ago. A go-ruck vest for me for Father's Day several years ago, and I don't know if that was before or after. I stumbled on Michael Easter's sub stack about it. But what does it do for you? I think you know. First of all, for sure it helps with core strength and stability, but it also just, I think, has a general therapeutic effect, and I'm probably not the best one to go into details on it, but yeah, so I have a weighted vest and before I had a sinus infection.
Speaker 1:I don't get them as often as I used to, but I was wearing a weighted vest to run on my treadmill and I was like, man, this is really hard. But I think you've inspired me over these next few days the holidays here that I'm going to put that vest on, put a hoodie on over it and maybe just go walk around my neighborhood and get back into the swing of things. I think that's awesome and I'm going to get this episode out as soon as possible. So I want to give people an idea. Maybe there's a Black Friday sale somewhere or something.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Yeah, there's a few companies out there. I'm drawing a blank on some of the others, but Michael Easter's, sponsored by GoRuck, so that's the one that I've got on my mind. I think it is probably better to walk than run, just for the impact on the knees, you know, when you've got extra weight on it. Also, you know it helps you to really appreciate the damage that being overweight brings too, because you realize, wow, like I've got this 30 pounds, I will. If you're 30 pounds overweight, you're, you're putting that pressure on your body every day, all the time, you know.
Speaker 1:I've mentioned this in other episodes, but there was a time when I started at the fruit company and I was traveling a lot and, kind of like you were saying earlier, your workload increases by the time you you're at O'Hare airport. You think your flight's going to take off on time. You think you're going to get to Detroit at three o'clock, which leaves you some time to get a workout in before you meet with your customers when I was going out to dinner with them. But what I found is a lot of times the flights out of the Midwest are delayed either to weather or traffic, and what happens is is it delays your whole day.
Speaker 1:Let's say I get back into Detroit at like seven o'clock. I run straight from the hotel to the dinner. I'm sitting on the plane, sitting on the Hertz bus, sitting in the rental car, sitting at dinner. That's where a lot of my weight came from. And now I'm very mindful about what I'm eating, what I'm doing, and I think with some of the guests, including yourself, I've really learned to be mindful about what it is I'm doing and making sure that I take time out for myself. When you wrap all those things in there, that's where the weight gain comes in right when you just it's piling on and you're. What are you going to do at that point?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think there's another element too of the value of rucking and getting outside, because you know it's interesting. I just started some physical therapy on the knee after I got stem cell therapy down and at CPI and that's been a pretty big game changer. The therapist had pointed out because I had just I kind of bragging that I had gotten an under the desk treadmill and he's like you know, I'd really rather you just go outside and get in nature and walk up there, just because there's so much evidence that being in nature is very healing in and of itself brings down anxiety. I'd say get moving but also incorporate getting into the green outdoors.
Speaker 1:I 100% believe that. I know where I live. We have so many trees around and I really like the trees. I hate to admit this, but I'm a bird watcher. Now I'm not bringing out binoculars or anything like that, but I'm identifying birds. Who would have thought that somebody that was into heavy metal, edm, hard rock concerts would be? Wow, look, it's a Cardinal, it's a Blue Jay, right? Can we talk about your stem cell? I'd really like to know why you decided to get it and what was the experience and how are you feeling after. Do you mind going through that?
Speaker 2:Yeah, absolutely, because I mean to me it was a game changer. I really got inspired after we talked to Wendy right, and I think I said this on that podcast that she really encouraged me and said you know, she had sent me this email and she said you're going to do a Spartan again, we're going to do it together. And I was like kind of the cliche in her book right, like you get an injury in your mid forties and you just think, oh, this is just what getting old is and I'm just going to have to accept this. And after we had left that conversation I was like no, I'm going to recommit here.
Speaker 2:So I started doing some research because the pain was pretty chronic, like I couldn't do any workouts without just I wouldn't be able to walk for days without putting. I could hardly put weight on the knee. So I thought it was pretty much toast, I'd gotten an MRI. So I thought it was pretty much toast, I'd gotten an MRI. A surgeon said well, I've seen worse knees, but really the only thing I could do is a full knee replacement. It doesn't look that bad.
Speaker 2:So I was kind of in this weird space where the only thing that traditional medicine was offering was to me pretty drastic. But I was in a really intolerable spot. I went and talked to an old CrossFit coach. I said, hey, I've been hearing about stem cells and he was just like, look, I've heard too many success stories. I think it works. And so my mom had heard on the Rogan podcast him mentioned CPI. I reached out to them and they were relatively local to me I could drive to Tijuana, basically. So I finally, you know, footed the bill, went down. You obviously have to pay for it out of pocket, but it was an incredible experience. I mean from the moment I got there, meeting people that were there for their follow-ups, just raving about how it saved their surgery. There's a lot of athletes down there and I will say for me within almost immediately, like two days after the injection in my knees, like the pain was almost completely gone. It was. It was literally shocking how fast.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but it's a. It's a. It's a 90 day journey, uh, where you can't work out after. You have to really treat it like a surgery. Let the stem cells get in there and start doing their work and building tissue. Um, so I came out of the 90 days. They want you to start physical therapy and I would say one thing in retrospect I don't think I'd given the credit that physical therapy is really due. I think my experiences with it, my limited experiences in my early 20s, I chalked it up to being a waste of time. But I found a guy here in Fullerton California. I've been working with him for about six weeks. I honestly almost wish I had done that first, just because of what a profound impact he had. I'm still glad I did the stem cells because there's a huge therapeutic benefit, holistic, systemic benefit as well, that of the journey. In a nutshell, I had knee surgery.
Speaker 1:I was running every day and the thing I would advise anybody is you have to incorporate some sort of strength training. You have to have muscles around those hands and quads to support the knee. I'm just out there running around and having a good time. Well, I went to make a pivot to catch the person carrying the ball flag football and I ended up tearing my meniscus. At first I'm like, oh, I just sprained it because I played soccer and rugby all my life, so I didn't think it was a big deal and the thing just swelled up like crazy. I got into the emergency room my friend had taken me there after the game and they did a x-ray like oh yeah, you tore it, they wrapped me up and back then this was what 2009.
Speaker 1:It was really hard to get into a good surgeon. I don't know if you've experienced this, but there's a long wait time. It wasn't like you could get something done in like two weeks. I had a friend of mine who had some connections and I actually had my surgery performed by the Chicago Bears doctor, Mark Bowen, and a lot of people I've talked to have had to have multiple surgeries because the first one wasn't successful. Dr Bowen did an excellent job, and I was literally in physical therapy the following week and that's where a lot of strength training was incorporated, and I'll never take that for granted. I'm very, very mindful of making sure that I'm lifting weights because it's so easy for those injuries to happen if your muscle isn't tight enough to connect to the bone. Not that I'm a doctor or anything and I'm not giving any advice, but that's been my experience.
Speaker 2:Yeah, no, I think there's so much there. That's actually what I was dealing with was meniscus tears as well, and I think the retrospective piece for me was just messing around. On YouTube found a good video from a doctor and what was very insightful to me about meniscus tears is something like 80% of meniscus tears present no symptoms. They're completely asymptomatic, and so the value of physical therapy, weight training, resistance training is a primary approach before surgery I had never even thought of. I thought that if you had a tear you're doomed to pain, which is not necessarily true, and there's a guy out there called Knees Over Toe Guy and he recommends walking backwards, which actually works. I saw a significant pain reduction just from walking backwards. Really, just do like a quarter of a mile, like two-tenths of a mile, three times a week. At first, when you do it, you feel weird because it messes with your balance and stuff. After you do it for a week or two, your neurons rewire or something and it feels just as natural as walking forward.
Speaker 1:All right, I'm going to have to try that today. Here's a question for you. When you've been injured, I got into yoga and I started doing some boxing at Title Boxing. Did you check out alternative exercises and workouts, cause I know you mentioned CrossFit earlier. Did you explore yoga?
Speaker 2:No, I, I used to do balance with both. It just became so expensive. But I used to do a CrossFit and Bikram yoga. I loved the hot yoga studio.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And I felt like that really helped me with core. Yoga is pretty amazing for that and you know if you're really going to be doing a lot of intense exercise. I think balancing it with a yoga routine is probably one of the best things you could do.
Speaker 1:Speaking of Bikram, we used to go to the studio in Chicago and one time my best friend and I went at lunchtime and you know, and you get in the room it's hotter than hell and we're laying on the mat talking and we're getting shh by all these people because it's such a sacred space and I'm like I'll just talk to you afterwards. I think I used to do 60 to 90 minutes.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's a 90 minuteminute session. I did their 30-day challenge and then I stopped. Where you go every day, I saw a huge, huge flexibility improvement. It's pretty amazing.
Speaker 1:Well, you know what I have? Natural Bikram yoga. If I go outside my house when it's 100 plus in the summer, there you go.
Speaker 2:You got to love this in the summer.
Speaker 1:There you go. You got to love this. Oh, I know, right. Well, you know you and I've talked about this offline. I think I'm going to take the plunge and do a Spartan next year with you and Wendy. Are you prepping for that now?
Speaker 2:Well, I'm kind of still on the rebound from the knees. I'm probably going to start training after the first of the year I was able to get back on the tonal. Tonal was my fallback when I stopped CrossFit just from the knee pain and that thing's pretty amazing and I might start supplementing CrossFit exercises again, workouts again, like my old gym. They opened up a new facility near me, so that's kind of my plan I think we're shooting for, like October, right For the race.
Speaker 1:It's somewhere in the Dallas area.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, so we got about nine months. I'm still too nervous to start running on this knee, but I'm hoping to start venturing out.
Speaker 1:I know what I wanted to ask you. I am. I love rock tape or KT tape. Do you ever use that stuff?
Speaker 2:Yes, that stuff's pretty. My chiropractor puts it on whenever I go. It's pretty amazing how just like, just like slight adjustments in positioning can make such a huge difference, you know.
Speaker 1:Isn't that crazy, I know, I learned about it from my chiro as well. I was again when I was traveling 75%. It's like let me tape up your shoulder, Let me tape up your knee or whatever, but that stuff is like magic.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah. I can never seem to apply it on my own, the way that he can over at the office, though. I bought it on Amazon.
Speaker 1:Get on YouTube.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, get on YouTube, get on YouTube.
Speaker 2:But that's actually one of the things that the physical therapist had me do, which is similar to what the tape does is he showed me to take the kneecap and literally dig right into it and then pull it up as hard as I can and hold it there for like 60 seconds and doing that a few times a day. That made a very big difference in the knee pain too, which I think is a similar mechanism to the K-tape. Right, you're kind of rearranging the positioning of the kneecap or some of the muscles around the knee.
Speaker 1:You're probably at your desk, a lot like many of us are, and KT tape is good. When you start getting that shoulder pain, your neck, it's just remarkable. Go on YouTube and whatever area you want to tape. There's this demo there, and usually it takes a person applying it for you, because I'm not successful either if I do it myself.
Speaker 2:No, that's great advice. Yeah, that stuff's amazing.
Speaker 1:How are you looking ahead into the next nine months? Do you have any? What is your guidance on staying consistent? Are you going to map things out on your phone? Are you going to put things on paper like a calendar? Are you going to have any sort of discipline for the first of the year?
Speaker 2:You know they say that that's really the only way you know, and I've actually just ordered a bullet journal journal pocket journal. I've been using bullet journal for like three or four years now and they just came out with a pocket version that you could do like recording your workouts. I think I might use that. The other piece is the tonal system's kind of cool because you can just say, hey, I want to do a program around this for the next four weeks and you hit a button and it maps it all out for you, gives you your workouts, does all the tracking on how much you've lifted. So so my plan is to kind of use that as well in conjunction with trying to tighten up my diet. I definitely need to drop some weight. It's when you've spent a year where you can't really do anything too intense. It's hard to keep the weight down, especially when your body's used to eating at the level it could eat when you were doing CrossFit five days a week.
Speaker 1:Oh gosh, when I was doing CrossFit in Chicago, afterwards get two chicken breasts, pitas, rice. I was eating a lot. Then when I was rowing, I hate to admit this, but I'd go to Steak and Shake after rowing and get a double or triple burger and a shake.
Speaker 2:Can't do that anymore, though I think that you can cheat because you're working out, but you really can't.
Speaker 1:And you know something else Since I've cleaned up my diet, I do feel a lot better. So if I'm eating really clean, I can tell that I'm not as fatigued. Does that make any sense? Have you found that out as well?
Speaker 2:Absolutely yeah. I think most of the energy issues come from the way you're eating. You got to get the right diet. For me, I've noticed that I just can't eat carbs. Carbs destroy my energy levels.
Speaker 1:They bloat me as well. So one of the things we've been doing around our house is we make our own homemade chipotle bowls, which I think is really good because we can control the portion size. And when I look back, you know, on TikTok people are having these eating challenges size.
Speaker 1:And when I look back, you know on TikTok people are having these eating challenges and I'm thinking man, how did I, how did I eat this big plate of rice and beans and meat and cheese and guacamole and sour cream? I don't know how I did it. What do you like to eat? Because I know over here we do chicken, we do vegetables, but that's it. We're not exciting at all vegetables.
Speaker 2:But that's it. We're not exciting at all. I am really into eggs. I eat a lot of eggs for my protein. I started ordering Momentous Whey Protein. I really try to shoot for that. One gram of protein per pound of goal weight, trying to get to about 180 grams of protein a day, which is actually really, really hard to do. So it's kind of a good goal to just prioritize your eating around hitting that protein goal. There's a guy, dr Ted Naiman, really into this satiety per calorie concept, which I think is brilliant, and the satiety retired from protein trumps everything else. So if you can just say, hey, this is my protein goal every day, um, I'm going to make sure that everything I do and eat is focused around hitting that goal, and then you can maybe even think about cheating after you hit the goal. But at that point you know you probably don't feel like eating anymore point.
Speaker 1:You know you probably don't feel like eating anymore. So that's kind of my approach. I started over COVID. I started with this protein called Upnourish and they're kind of like a cachava because I'm like, oh, let me try that. And then I was looking at alternatives. It's a plant-based protein. It has adaptogens and I feel really energetic afterwards. It's natural plant protein. Up nourish we do the chocolate and that's been. That's been really good. And when you talk about like eating a lot, I don't know if you ever saw million dollar baby with Hillary Swank. You should check it out. I mean, she was. She just molded her body into the body of a fighter. But she said that she got tired of eating because of the protein. And I just thought of that. When you were talking about protein, she, she would have to wake herself up to like eat. And I'm like, nah, I'm not doing that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's really hard, you know. I think um having some shortcuts to get there is probably helpful. But you know, for me it's like um eating fruits, eating fruits and vegetables. You know, trying to do that with and also stay low sugar can be hard on the on the fruit side, but you know it's probably not that big of a deal in the grand scheme of things. I love grapes is a kind of a go-to for my sweets, and then athletic greens. I can't take that anymore. It started causing me my skin would just itch. They change their formula, I guess, fairly often, but doing some type of a green, like a green vibrance or athletic greens or something like that, to kind of retire that need, I think is a good approach as well.
Speaker 1:Now, that's cool. I think my treat these days are macintosh apples because I like that. Yeah, yeah, I better, I better scrounge them all up before they go out of season. Here let's talk about this. How are you managing like stress and and burnout? How are you taking a step back and saying, okay, you know, you know what I got to do this, I got to do that.
Speaker 2:What am I doing Actually? This year I really got more diligent about implementing a meditation practice which I think really supports a lot of that across the board. I think I shared this with you that what was that called? Nsdr? A Huberman NSDR you can do. There's like a 20 minute one that really helps with. Just a Huberman NSDR. There's a 20-minute one that really helps with if you didn't get enough sleep. But to fall asleep. The first few times I did that I literally fell asleep before I was finished like a rock and slept all through the night. I think to your point, when you got a lot coming at you like that, you really have to be focused on mindfulness and then getting good quality sleep. I try to prioritize that and I track it really well with the Whoop band. I just switched to the Whoop band in September. Those are a couple of things I'm doing.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I love meditation and the thing I love about it is there's free content on YouTube. Meditation isn't always like sitting in a dark room. You could meditate while you're walking. But I get a lot of my ideas if I just sit in silence and I, reflecting back on this, I always had something in my ears, I was always listening to music or audio book, and I don't think your brain has a chance to relax and provide you with different concepts and different things, because I think now when I sit in silence whether that's going for a walk I get ideas. I think you know what I should do that, or I'll look at my day and say, well, that's not really that bad. You're making it a bigger deal than it is. But I do sleep at night with binaural beats. There's different frequencies that help different parts of the body. I'm into all that stuff now, shannon.
Speaker 2:No, I love the binaural beats. I used to do that when I was going to school and working, because it's hard to shut off work and you put on the headphones, turn on the deep work like binaural beats and you're kind of in the zone.
Speaker 1:What's cool is there's all these different frequencies for, like you said, studying, if you want to go to sleep. There's even one, and I would love for you to try it. I'd love to hear what your thoughts are on this. But there's one where, if you have aches or pains in your body, you can listen to that in your ears as you fall asleep, and a lot of times I've woken up going oh, I really feel good. I don't know if it's a placebo effect, but I do, from my experience, recommend it because it works for me.
Speaker 2:You don't have to send me that Before we go any movies, concerts, anything coming up here between now and the first of the year. I want to see that new Gladiator film. I hear it's good enough, but I liked the first one. That's kind of on my list. How about you?
Speaker 1:Well, I was going to go see Taylor Swift one last time in Canada, but I'm just not going to do it. The logistics are not something I want to deal with. It's next week in Vancouver. I opted not to do that. We are also looking at possibly seeing Gladiator. I'm going to take this time to just decompress and do nothing. Maybe I mean not saying I'm not doing anything, but I don't want to charge up my brain too much if that makes sense there's a value to boredom.
Speaker 2:I mean, we're just so not used to being bored anymore and I think the mind is made to be bored, and that's probably one of the biggest issues with social media, to be honest with you.
Speaker 1:I deleted my Facebook and with LinkedIn, I've taken kind of a sabbatical Not that I didn't want to post things, but I wanted to take some time away from it because I think there's good and bad on social media. There's the people that are doing really well, which is awesome, and then there's the people that are going through the worst days of their life. I don't want to get too into the feelings of other people right now because I'm really mindful about social media. I'm not on there as much as I used to be, like a year ago, two years ago. I think that's smart. Yeah, me too. We've got some exciting episodes coming up.
Speaker 1:Shannon, glad to have you alongside me here as we record. We really want to thank our listeners for all the wonderful feedback. We've seen a lot of downloads lately and we're looking forward to next year. Shannon, hopefully you'll be sharing your Spartan race journey with us. I mean, maybe we can do a few to get other people to want to do it right. Yeah, I really appreciate you having me on and being a part of this or other things and talk with other leaders and we could get people going. Hey, you know what? It's not too late. Wendy Bounds, as she said that's very inspirational to have people on the show that can talk about their experiences and motivate other people.
Speaker 2:Totally agree. Two one Thanks everybody for listening. You can find us on all the streaming platforms, including Apple, Spotify and our heart radio.
Speaker 1:Thank you and everybody have a great holiday.
